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The Kelley Five

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  #21  
Old 02-04-2006, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda
The term Target Line always refers to the Flight Line, the straightaway direction of Aim. The term Flight Path refers to the total ball behavior (including any curve) on its way to the Target (7-3). The Target Line is dictated by circumstance and is immoveable.

Stance Line and Plane Line are moveable and can be aligned (in relation to the fixed Target Line) to produce any one of the nine Plane Line - Stance Line Combinations (three Stance Lines to each of the three Plane Lines per 10-5-0). The Plane Line - Stance Line Combination selected will reflect the player's Basic Stroke Pattern or its Variation, psychological preference, the intended Ball Behavior (Flight Path) or all three.

As a special note to those who have gone nuts trying to crack the code of CCW and CW in 10-5-0, the terms mean Counter Clockwise and Clockwise.
Thanks Yoda for elaborating that Stance Line and Plane Line are always classified in relation to Target Line.

When I referred to Target Line being "moveable", I really meant that people ought to look at 10-5 and know that the target line is not really pointing way right or way left of their target but at the target.

That was hard to get for me initially - what is not stated in the book was that Mr. Kelley's garage was so tiny that he had to take certain shots from a "misleading" angle".
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  #22  
Old 02-04-2006, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda
The term Target Line always refers to the Flight Line, the straightaway direction of Aim. The term Flight Path refers to the total ball behavior (including any curve) on its way to the Target (7-3). The Target Line is dictated by circumstance and is immoveable.

Stance Line and Plane Line are moveable and can be aligned (in relation to the fixed Target Line) to produce any one of the nine Plane Line - Stance Line Combinations (three Stance Lines to each of the three Plane Lines per 10-5-0). The Plane Line - Stance Line Combination selected will reflect the player's Basic Stroke Pattern or its Variation, psychological preference, the intended Ball Behavior (Flight Path) or all three.

As a special note to those who have gone nuts trying to crack the code of CCW and CW in 10-5-0, the terms mean Counter Clockwise and Clockwise.
Yes, Yes, this is one of the things I have been fighting.

Is it correct to say the Line of Flight is the Flight Line?

I have been assuming that it is based on 7-5/10-5.

The only thing that has driven me bonkers is 2-F paragraph 3 where it is stated "Whenever the Clubshaft is parallel to the ground it must also be parallel to the base line of the Inclined Plane (7-5/10-5 Plane Line as I understand it) which is usually (but not always) the Line of Flight also."

This tells me that after I have accepted the Flight Line (Line of Flight) as the Target Line, that it now being referenced as the base line of the Inclined Plane which by 7-5/10-5 this can not be...

I really thought, believed that the Line of Flight, Flight Line and Target Line were all the same line based on the references used, but this 2-F is confusing.

Help....
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  #23  
Old 02-04-2006, 11:25 PM
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I believe in the 2nd or 3rd edition ...Homer referred to the Line of Flight in regards to the Clubface....I could stand to be corrected due to not having those editions here in front of me...but at my office.....I will double check on Monday...
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2006, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
I believe in the 2nd or 3rd edition ...Homer referred to the Line of Flight in regards to the Clubface....I could stand to be corrected due to not having those editions here in front of me...but at my office.....I will double check on Monday...
In the latest version he does have several reference to the Line of Flight and the clubface (2-E, 1-L-17,2-N-0[?]), can't recall the others...
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  #25  
Old 02-06-2006, 10:43 AM
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Hope
Bump in hope of some response to post #22 questions..
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  #26  
Old 02-06-2006, 11:18 AM
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Flight Line
Originally Posted by Martee
Yes, Yes, this is one of the things I have been fighting.

Is it correct to say the Line of Flight is the Flight Line?

I have been assuming that it is based on 7-5/10-5.

The only thing that has driven me bonkers is 2-F paragraph 3 where it is stated "Whenever the Clubshaft is parallel to the ground it must also be parallel to the base line of the Inclined Plane (7-5/10-5 Plane Line as I understand it) which is usually (but not always) the Line of Flight also."

This tells me that after I have accepted the Flight Line (Line of Flight) as the Target Line, that it now being referenced as the base line of the Inclined Plane which by 7-5/10-5 this can not be...

I really thought, believed that the Line of Flight, Flight Line and Target Line were all the same line based on the references used, but this 2-F is confusing.

Help....
Marty,
If you are hitting straight shots, that is - you are not fading or drawing the ball, then the flight line, target line, plane line are all pointing in the same direction. So "Usually"- means hitting a straight shot.
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  #27  
Old 02-06-2006, 11:46 AM
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Great Post...Mike o....


Therefore curvature is the "divergence" of these lines.....
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  #28  
Old 02-06-2006, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike O
Marty,
If you are hitting straight shots, that is you are not fading or drawing the ball, then the flight line, target line, plane line are all pointing in the same direction. So "Usually"- means hitting a straight shot.
Not quite what I was looking for [B](edit)[/b] your response as I read it and understand it is that you have identified three separate and distinct lines..the first part was

1. Is the Line of Flight and Flight Line the same line, not two lines where one is superimposed over the other?

2. If they are the same line, just labeled differently, are they the Target Line as well, again only one line now with three different labels?

What I was under the impression that all three terms refer to the same single line and if you your stance is open to the Target Line, you could also say it is open to the Flight Line or Line of Flight. There is no exception, they are always just one line that has three different labels or terms.

Part 2 later.

Thanks for your help...
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  #29  
Old 02-06-2006, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Martee

Not quite what I was looking for [B](edit)[/b] your response as I read it and understand it is that you have identified three separate and distinct lines..the first part was

1. Is the Line of Flight and Flight Line the same line, not two lines where one is superimposed over the other?

2. If they are the same line, just labeled differently, are they the Target Line as well, again only one line now with three different labels?

What I was under the impression that all three terms refer to the same single line and if you your stance is open to the Target Line, you could also say it is open to the Flight Line or Line of Flight. There is no exception, they are always just one line that has three different labels or terms.
You are right, Martee. The three terms refer to the same straight line to the Target. However, the Target Line can be differentiated from the Flight Line/Line of Flight in perspective.

Target Line refers to the straight Line ("straightaway direction of Aim") from the Ball to the Target, and the label emphasizes the ultimate destination. The terms Flight Line and Line of Flight likewise refer to the straight line from the Ball to the Target. However, these labels emphasize the normally-intended straight line Ball Flight.

The Plane Line -- the Base Line of the Inclined Plane -- intersects the Target Line (or, if you will, the Flight Line) as either Square, Open or Closed. Flight Path refers to the total Ball Behavior (including the curve produced by any divergence of the Plane Line and Target Line/Flight Line) on the way to the Target.

The Stance Line intersects the Plane Line as Square, Open or Closed, but has no effect on the direction of the Plane Line (and any divergence with the Target Line). Hence, it has no effect on the Flight Path (total Ball Behavior). Instead, the Stance affects only the Pivot, i.e., Open Stance (restricted Backstroke and free Follow-Through) versus Closed Stance (free Backstroke and restricted Follow-Through).
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  #30  
Old 02-06-2006, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda
You are right, Martee. The three terms refer to the same straight line to the Target. However, the Target Line can be differentiated from the Flight Line/Line of Flight in perspective.

Target Line refers to the straight Line ("straightaway direction of Aim") from the Ball to the Target, and the label emphasizes the ultimate destination. The terms Flight Line and Line of Flight likewise refer to the straight line from the Ball to the Target. However, these labels emphasize the normally-intended straight line Ball Flight.

The Plane Line -- the Base Line of the Inclined Plane -- intersects the Target Line (or, if you will, the Flight Line) as either Square, Open or Closed. Flight Path refers to the total Ball Behavior (including the curve produced by any divergence of the Plane Line and Target Line/Flight Line) on the way to the Target.

The Stance Line intersects the Plane Line as Square, Open or Closed, but has no effect on the direction of the Plane Line. Hence, it has no effect on the Flight Path (total Ball Behavior). Instead, the Stance affects only the Pivot, i.e., Open Stance (restricted Backstroke and free Follow-Through) versus Closed Stance (free Backstroke and restricted Follow-Through).

GREAT!!!!

Now for part two...this is where I go into the dump...

The only thing that has driven me bonkers is 2-F paragraph 3 where it is stated "Whenever the Clubshaft is parallel to the ground it must also be parallel to the base line of the Inclined Plane (7-5/10-5 Plane Line as I understand it) which is usually (but not always) the Line of Flight also."

This reads that the base line of the Inclined Plane is on the same line as the Line of Flight (on top of it), but our definition and understanding says that the three line, the stance line, plane line (base of Inclined Plane) and Target Line/Line of Flight/Flight Line are parallel to each for a straight shot or that the first two can cross/interest withe the Target Line/Line of Flight/Flight Line.

If it were to have said that it was the Sweet Spot Plane Line vs base of the Inclined Plane then it could be accurate.

I really believe based on my search that it should read that it is parallel both lines (usually) and should not indicate they are one of the same lines.
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